Labo333 · 447 points · 213 comments · 22 hours ago · Open original
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BEben301 hour ago
Interesting response from Claude, when I attempted to reduce the "load-bearing" in its responses:
I added to my global prompt:
- Orwell's first rule: never use a metaphor you're used to seeing in print. "Load-bearing", "the crux", "first-class citizen" signal insight instead of showing it. Name the specific mechanism
when I asked what it thought of the change, its reply was:
The Orwell bullet fights my own system prompt. My harness instructions literally tell me to flag "something load-bearing" when I find it.
NAnater500015 hours ago
I was pleasantly surprised when I attempted to scroll down and realized everything the author wanted to present fit on-screen. It's almost ironic that this site is able to make such an obvious, compelling presentation without being overly verbose or complicated (something which LLMs have a hard time doing). I wouldn't read TOO deeply into what is being presented, but the author has done a good job to not inject their own bias into the presentation which works well.
I suspect, as we continue forward, humans will slowly start to adopt the language of LLMs, or at least certain language quirks that come from interacting with LLMs. Something I've noticed in my own writing is that I now present lists of examples in a consistent way: "... such as <example 1>, <example 2>, etc., ...". I started to notice I was using this pattern quite a bit somewhat recently, but I took a quick look at some of my social media posts and realized it's been occurring for a while. I had realized that I grown accustomed to this kind of language because, especially early on, LLMs would focus too much on the specific examples I'd provide when, really, I was just trying to give them a sense of what I was looking for. I just picked up that providing two examples then adding the "etc." worked to get the LLM to not focus so much on the specific examples and to understand that they need to consider more than what I explicitly presented. Of course, now I write like that in my social media comments, in Slack with my colleagues, etc. :>
I'd be interested to see if anyone can identify trends like this, since I think the human-language component of the adoption of LLMs is probably being somewhat neglected despite probably being surely dramatically affected.
LALabo33315 hours ago
Author here! Grateful for the kind words, human communities like HN really hit differently when you spend the whole day chatting with sycophantic and bullshitting agents (including to make this page).
I'm currently adding a search bar as well as increasing the data to 1000 PR per day.
A nice thing that is not obvious on the main page is that the dataset and analysis are updated daily using Github Actions (at least when they don't suffer from an outage ^^). I find it pretty cool to be able to build such apps without a "backend"!
SASalariedSlave10 hours ago
I've recently seen this mentioned more and more, both on HN and on reddit. It seems these output patterns are getting worse. It's not just Claude, my impression is that all of the current models have this style issue. Their writing can get borderline incomprehensible.
Is there some feedback loop or compounding happening with each model generation?
Maybe newer models are ingesting too much AI content?
If the ratio of AI generated content in training data is getting higher and higher (because the amount of AI generated content is increasing in general), maybe this is a compounding bias, poisoning the training?
POpolycaster53 minutes ago
While the post is specific to Claude, interestingly I found the same terms and language patterns appear noticeably more often in recent Open AI conversations as well. Also in the same timeframe as for the Claude models. And I can see two reasons for that. One being that one company is training on the models of the other company, but I highly doubt that because of the apparent similar appearance without noticeable delay. And the other being that there has been some fundamental realization on how to improve and shape conversations.
I see people around here giving advice on how to reduce this vocabulary in the model output. I’m not certain this is a clever thing to do, as it appears to me, the emphasis on certain words is deliberate, and an important step towards overall quality as the words are being played back to the model in the next turn and thus supporting the model shape its own thoughts and stay on course.
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Interesting response from Claude, when I attempted to reduce the "load-bearing" in its responses: I added to my global prompt: - Orwell's first rule: never use a metaphor you're used to seeing in print. "Load-bearing", "the crux", "first-class citizen" signal insight instead of showing it. Name the specific mechanism when I asked what it thought of the change, its reply was: The Orwell bullet fights my own system prompt. My harness instructions literally tell me to flag "something load-bearing" when I find it.
I was pleasantly surprised when I attempted to scroll down and realized everything the author wanted to present fit on-screen. It's almost ironic that this site is able to make such an obvious, compelling presentation without being overly verbose or complicated (something which LLMs have a hard time doing). I wouldn't read TOO deeply into what is being presented, but the author has done a good job to not inject their own bias into the presentation which works well. I suspect, as we continue forward, humans will slowly start to adopt the language of LLMs, or at least certain language quirks that come from interacting with LLMs. Something I've noticed in my own writing is that I now present lists of examples in a consistent way: "... such as <example 1>, <example 2>, etc., ...". I started to notice I was using this pattern quite a bit somewhat recently, but I took a quick look at some of my social media posts and realized it's been occurring for a while. I had realized that I grown accustomed to this kind of language because, especially early on, LLMs would focus too much on the specific examples I'd provide when, really, I was just trying to give them a sense of what I was looking for. I just picked up that providing two examples then adding the "etc." worked to get the LLM to not focus so much on the specific examples and to understand that they need to consider more than what I explicitly presented. Of course, now I write like that in my social media comments, in Slack with my colleagues, etc. :> I'd be interested to see if anyone can identify trends like this, since I think the human-language component of the adoption of LLMs is probably being somewhat neglected despite probably being surely dramatically affected.
Author here! Grateful for the kind words, human communities like HN really hit differently when you spend the whole day chatting with sycophantic and bullshitting agents (including to make this page). I'm currently adding a search bar as well as increasing the data to 1000 PR per day. A nice thing that is not obvious on the main page is that the dataset and analysis are updated daily using Github Actions (at least when they don't suffer from an outage ^^). I find it pretty cool to be able to build such apps without a "backend"!
I've recently seen this mentioned more and more, both on HN and on reddit. It seems these output patterns are getting worse. It's not just Claude, my impression is that all of the current models have this style issue. Their writing can get borderline incomprehensible. Is there some feedback loop or compounding happening with each model generation? Maybe newer models are ingesting too much AI content? If the ratio of AI generated content in training data is getting higher and higher (because the amount of AI generated content is increasing in general), maybe this is a compounding bias, poisoning the training?
While the post is specific to Claude, interestingly I found the same terms and language patterns appear noticeably more often in recent Open AI conversations as well. Also in the same timeframe as for the Claude models. And I can see two reasons for that. One being that one company is training on the models of the other company, but I highly doubt that because of the apparent similar appearance without noticeable delay. And the other being that there has been some fundamental realization on how to improve and shape conversations. I see people around here giving advice on how to reduce this vocabulary in the model output. I’m not certain this is a clever thing to do, as it appears to me, the emphasis on certain words is deliberate, and an important step towards overall quality as the words are being played back to the model in the next turn and thus supporting the model shape its own thoughts and stay on course.